diff --git a/include/libwebsockets/lws-context-vhost.h b/include/libwebsockets/lws-context-vhost.h
index 2a7bdbe59..9240674a4 100644
--- a/include/libwebsockets/lws-context-vhost.h
+++ b/include/libwebsockets/lws-context-vhost.h
@@ -1123,6 +1123,24 @@ lws_context_user(struct lws_context *context);
 LWS_VISIBLE LWS_EXTERN const char *
 lws_vh_tag(struct lws_vhost *vh);
 
+/**
+ * lws_context_is_being_destroyed() - find out if context is being destroyed
+ *
+ * \param context: the struct lws_context pointer
+ *
+ * Returns nonzero if the context has had lws_context_destroy() called on it...
+ * when using event library loops the destroy process can be asynchronous.  In
+ * the special case of libuv foreign loops, the failure to create the context
+ * may have to do work on the foreign loop to reverse the partial creation,
+ * meaning a failed context create cannot unpick what it did and return NULL.
+ *
+ * In that condition, a valid context that is already started the destroy
+ * process is returned, and this test api will return nonzero as a way to
+ * find out the create is in the middle of failing.
+ */
+LWS_VISIBLE LWS_EXTERN int
+lws_context_is_being_destroyed(struct lws_context *context);
+
 /*! \defgroup vhost-mounts Vhost mounts and options
  * \ingroup context-and-vhost-creation
  *
diff --git a/lib/core-net/vhost.c b/lib/core-net/vhost.c
index ab8c0ca4a..5ba736377 100644
--- a/lib/core-net/vhost.c
+++ b/lib/core-net/vhost.c
@@ -1053,7 +1053,6 @@ lws_vhost_destroy1(struct lws_vhost *vh)
 				break;
 			}
 		} lws_end_foreach_ll(v, vhost_next);
-
 #endif
 
 	lws_vhost_unlock(vh); /* } vh -------------- */
diff --git a/lib/core/context.c b/lib/core/context.c
index b7e379fd3..921af1e05 100644
--- a/lib/core/context.c
+++ b/lib/core/context.c
@@ -1871,10 +1871,6 @@ next:
 
 #if defined(LWS_WITH_NETWORK)
 
-		context->evlib_finalize_destroy_after_int_loops_stop = 1;
-		if (context->event_loop_ops->destroy_context2)
-			context->event_loop_ops->destroy_context2(context);
-
 		for (n = 0; n < context->count_threads; n++) {
 			struct lws_context_per_thread *pt = &context->pt[n];
 			(void)pt;
@@ -1915,11 +1911,20 @@ next:
 			goto bail;
 		}
 
+		if (!context->pt[0].event_loop_foreign) {
+			lwsl_notice("%s: waiting for internal loop exit\n", __func__);
+
+			goto bail;
+		}
 #endif
 
 	case LWSCD_FINALIZATION:
 
+		context->evlib_finalize_destroy_after_int_loops_stop = 1;
+
 #if defined(LWS_WITH_NETWORK)
+		if (context->event_loop_ops->destroy_context2)
+			context->event_loop_ops->destroy_context2(context);
 
 		/*
 		 * finalize destroy of pt and things hanging off it
@@ -2027,6 +2032,12 @@ bail:
 	lws_context_unlock(context);
 }
 
+int
+lws_context_is_being_destroyed(struct lws_context *context)
+{
+	return !!context->being_destroyed;
+}
+
 #if defined(LWS_WITH_SYS_STATE)
 struct lws_context *
 lws_system_context_from_system_mgr(lws_state_manager_t *mgr)
diff --git a/lib/event-libs/libuv/libuv.c b/lib/event-libs/libuv/libuv.c
index 9fdd76751..b9fae034a 100644
--- a/lib/event-libs/libuv/libuv.c
+++ b/lib/event-libs/libuv/libuv.c
@@ -227,13 +227,21 @@ lws_uv_finalize_pt(struct lws_context_per_thread *pt)
 			return 1;
 		}
 	} else
-		lwsl_debug("%s: still %d undestroyed\n", __func__, pt->context->undestroyed_threads);
+		lwsl_debug("%s: still %d undestroyed\n", __func__,
+				pt->context->undestroyed_threads);
 
 	lws_context_unlock(pt->context);
 
 	return 0;
 }
 
+// static void lws_uv_walk_cb(uv_handle_t *handle, void *arg)
+// {
+//      if (!uv_is_closing(handle))
+//	      lwsl_err("%s: handle %p still alive on loop\n", __func__, handle);
+// }
+
+
 static const int sigs[] = { SIGINT, SIGTERM, SIGSEGV, SIGFPE, SIGHUP };
 
 /*
@@ -261,6 +269,13 @@ lws_uv_close_cb_sa(uv_handle_t *handle)
 	    ptpriv->extant_handles)
 		return;
 
+	/*
+	 * So we believe nothing of ours left on the loop.  Let's sanity
+	 * check it to count what's still on the loop
+	 */
+
+	// uv_walk(pt_to_priv_uv(pt)->io_loop, lws_uv_walk_cb, NULL);
+
 	/*
 	 * That's it... all wsi were down, and now every
 	 * static asset lws had a UV handle for is down.
@@ -270,9 +285,6 @@ lws_uv_close_cb_sa(uv_handle_t *handle)
 
 	lwsl_info("%s: thr %d: seen final static handle gone\n", __func__, tsi);
 
-	if (ptpriv->io_loop && !pt->event_loop_foreign)
-		uv_stop(pt_to_priv_uv(pt)->io_loop);
-
 	if (!pt->event_loop_foreign) {
 		lwsl_info("%s: calling lws_context_destroy2\n", __func__);
 		lws_context_destroy(context);
@@ -308,24 +320,6 @@ lws_libuv_static_refcount_del(uv_handle_t *h)
 	lws_uv_close_cb_sa(h);
 }
 
-
-static void lws_uv_close_cb(uv_handle_t *handle)
-{
-}
-
-static void lws_uv_walk_cb(uv_handle_t *handle, void *arg)
-{
-	if (!uv_is_closing(handle))
-		uv_close(handle, lws_uv_close_cb);
-}
-
-void
-lws_close_all_handles_in_loop(uv_loop_t *loop)
-{
-	uv_walk(loop, lws_uv_walk_cb, NULL);
-}
-
-
 void
 lws_libuv_stop_without_kill(const struct lws_context *context, int tsi)
 {
@@ -333,8 +327,6 @@ lws_libuv_stop_without_kill(const struct lws_context *context, int tsi)
 		uv_stop(pt_to_priv_uv(&context->pt[tsi])->io_loop);
 }
 
-
-
 uv_loop_t *
 lws_uv_getloop(struct lws_context *context, int tsi)
 {
@@ -516,6 +508,12 @@ elops_accept_uv(struct lws *wsi)
 
 	ptpriv->extant_handles++;
 
+	lwsl_debug("%s: thr %d: %s sa left %d: dyn left: %d\n", __func__,
+		    (int)(pt - &pt->context->pt[0]),
+		    lws_wsi_tag(wsi),
+		    pt->count_event_loop_static_asset_handles,
+		    ptpriv->extant_handles);
+
 	return 0;
 }
 
@@ -575,6 +573,7 @@ static int
 elops_init_vhost_listen_wsi_uv(struct lws *wsi)
 {
 	struct lws_context_per_thread *pt;
+	struct lws_pt_eventlibs_libuv *ptpriv;
 	struct lws_io_watcher_libuv *w_read;
 	int n;
 
@@ -587,7 +586,8 @@ elops_init_vhost_listen_wsi_uv(struct lws *wsi)
 		return 0;
 
 	pt = &wsi->a.context->pt[(int)wsi->tsi];
-	if (!pt_to_priv_uv(pt)->io_loop)
+	ptpriv = pt_to_priv_uv(pt);
+	if (!ptpriv->io_loop)
 		return 0;
 
 	w_read->context = wsi->a.context;
@@ -605,6 +605,14 @@ elops_init_vhost_listen_wsi_uv(struct lws *wsi)
 		return -1;
 	}
 
+	ptpriv->extant_handles++;
+
+	lwsl_debug("%s: thr %d: %s sa left %d: dyn left: %d\n", __func__,
+		    (int)(pt - &pt->context->pt[0]),
+		    lws_wsi_tag(wsi),
+		    pt->count_event_loop_static_asset_handles,
+		    ptpriv->extant_handles);
+
 	((uv_handle_t *)w_read->pwatcher)->data = (void *)wsi;
 
 	elops_io_uv(wsi, LWS_EV_START | LWS_EV_READ);
@@ -623,16 +631,22 @@ static void
 elops_destroy_pt_uv(struct lws_context *context, int tsi)
 {
 	struct lws_context_per_thread *pt = &context->pt[tsi];
+	struct lws_pt_eventlibs_libuv *ptpriv = pt_to_priv_uv(pt);
 	int m, ns;
 
 	if (!lws_check_opt(context->options, LWS_SERVER_OPTION_LIBUV))
 		return;
 
-	if (!pt_to_priv_uv(pt)->io_loop)
+	if (!ptpriv->io_loop)
 		return;
 
-	if (pt->event_loop_destroy_processing_done)
+	if (pt->event_loop_destroy_processing_done) {
+		if (!pt->event_loop_foreign) {
+			lwsl_warn("%s: stopping event loop\n", __func__);
+			uv_stop(pt_to_priv_uv(pt)->io_loop);
+		}
 		return;
+	}
 
 	pt->event_loop_destroy_processing_done = 1;
 	lwsl_debug("%s: %d\n", __func__, tsi);
@@ -774,9 +788,17 @@ lws_libuv_closewsi(uv_handle_t* handle)
 #endif
 
 	lws_pt_lock(pt, __func__);
+
+	lwsl_notice("%s: thr %d: %s sa left %d: dyn left: %d (rk %d)\n", __func__,
+		    (int)(pt - &pt->context->pt[0]),
+		    lws_wsi_tag(wsi),
+		    pt->count_event_loop_static_asset_handles,
+		    ptpriv->extant_handles - 1,
+		    context->requested_stop_internal_loops);
+
 	__lws_close_free_wsi_final(wsi);
+	assert(ptpriv->extant_handles);
 	ptpriv->extant_handles--;
-	assert(ptpriv >= 0);
 	lws_pt_unlock(pt);
 
 	/* it's our job to close the handle finally */
@@ -789,12 +811,6 @@ lws_libuv_closewsi(uv_handle_t* handle)
 	}
 #endif
 
-	lwsl_notice("%s: thr %d: sa left %d: dyn left: %d (rk %d)\n", __func__,
-		    (int)(pt - &pt->context->pt[0]),
-		    pt->count_event_loop_static_asset_handles,
-		    ptpriv->extant_handles,
-		    context->requested_stop_internal_loops);
-
 	/*
 	 * eventually, we closed all the wsi...
 	 */
diff --git a/lib/plat/unix/unix-fds.c b/lib/plat/unix/unix-fds.c
index e15b57c3b..ec457664d 100644
--- a/lib/plat/unix/unix-fds.c
+++ b/lib/plat/unix/unix-fds.c
@@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ sanity_assert_no_sockfd_traces(const struct lws_context *context,
 #else
 	struct lws **p, **done;
 
-	if (sfd == LWS_SOCK_INVALID)
+	if (sfd == LWS_SOCK_INVALID || !context->lws_lookup)
 		return 0;
 
 	if (!context->max_fds_unrelated_to_ulimit &&